Episode 33: The Universal Dancer Podcast – I’m Interviewed by Leslie Zehr

Leslie Zehr is a wonderful host and interviewer, and even though this was my first podcast, she immediately put me at ease. We had a delightful, fun conversation where I was able to share my journey from dancing as a toddler while my grandmother played the piano, through my dance education at the Graham Studio and The Juilliard School, to the creation of the Avodah Dance Ensemble.  Her questions enabled me to discuss the transformative power of dance, as we explored how dance is a method of empowerment and healing in women’s correctional institutions, and how it led to filmmaking and in particular the film Through the Door: Movement and Meditation as Part of Healing with domestic violence survivors.

Each month since January 31, 2021, Leslie has produced a different Podcast, all designed to inspire “a community of like-minded souls seeking to understand the cosmic dance of co-creation through the sacred arts.”   She wants to expand minds, ignite creativity and explore something new and something old.

Leslie is a sacred arts teacher, workshop leader, mentor and author of two books, The Alchemy of Dance and The Al-chemia Remedies.  While she was born in Peru and educated in the United States, she lives in Egypt, where for more than 30 years she has supported women “to reconnect to the Divine Feminine within through the mysteries of ancient Egypt.”

The Podcast series covers a range of subjects. Some examples are: Let Your Yoga Dance; Sacred Self Care Chakradance; A Roundtable Discussion of the Importance of Movement and Dance in Children’s Lives; and Japanese Butoh.

While the Podcast is not done live, Leslie does no editing, so I knew that I had to be as clear and focused as I could be.  When the interview was over, we had a few minutes to check in about how it went.  I expressed my gratitude to Leslie for her warmth, and we both agreed we had fun sharing together.  The interview is available to listen to as a podcast and to watch on YouTube.

Link to Podcast Platforms:

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/leslie-zehr/episodes/JoAnne-Tucker–Author-of-Torah-in-Motion-Creating-Dance-Midrash-and-the-Mostly-Dance-Blog-e2cdonl

Link to YouTube: https://youtube.com/live/7KP8B3mATwU

Screenshot from YouTube. I like this moment because you can see we are both having fun!

 

 

 

Casa Uno – Labyrinth Number 26 – Camino del Artista (Part 1)

One morning following my meditation I looked out at the garden and thought, “What this property needs is a labyrinth,” or laberinto in Spanish.  Hum…I wondered if there were many in Costa Rica and how I might go about having one here. So of course I Googled “labyrinth, Costa Rica” and yes a lot of links came up.  It would be possible.  First let me back up a bit and share how my interest in labyrinths began.

While I knew about the difference between a labyrinth and a maze I can’t remember if I had ever walked one before 2012.  Just a reminder, a maze, often made with hedges or walls, is a convoluted path that the walker needs to solve, leading to a goal. In contrast, a labyrinth doesn’t have a hedge or wall but rather a defined path on the ground that twists and turns and eventually leads the walker into the center.   The following description is from the Labyrinth Society:

A labyrinth is a meandering path, often unicursal, with a singular path leading to a center.  Labyrinths are an ancient archetype dating back 4,000 years or more, used symbolically, as a walking meditation, choreographed dance, or site of rituals and ceremony, among other things.  Labyrinths are tools for personal, psychological and spiritual transformation. (https://labyrinthsociety.org/about-labyrinths)

My real interest in how the labyrinth could be a tool for meditation and growth didn’t happen until I was volunteering in a meditation and movement program with Aine McCarthy in the Santa Fe County Women’s Detention Center beginning in 2012.  Aine was in the chaplaincy program at Upaya Zen Center and we had met at a retreat. During a breakfast at the end of the retreat we learned that two dancers had stayed at her house when the Avodah Dance Ensemble had spent a week in residence at York Correctional Institution. (See blog https://wp.me/p9Mj5D-gM)  Aine was then a teenager… now over 10 years later here we were sitting across from each other at a breakfast table at Upaya.  When Aine shared that she was in the chaplaincy program I asked what she wanted to do as a chaplain, and she said she wanted to work possibly as a chaplain in the correction field and was planning to do a project in the Santa Fe County Jail.  She then asked, much to my surprise, if I might be interested in joining her and suggested we could develop a movement and meditation program for the women in the jail.  I thought, “Why not!”  And so we began working together.

We did the training program to become volunteers in the jail and developed a curriculum for guiding the women in an hour-and-a-half session once a week.  Working in a jail is very different than the previous work I had done in a prison. First of all there is a much greater level of anxiety, as the women don’t know how long they will be there.  Maybe they will soon be out on bail.  When will they get a court date? What kind of sentence will they get?  They may also be dealing with coming down from drugs or regular alcohol use. So the tension and stress level is very high.

We designed sessions integrating movement, meditation and writing.  Soon we were leading sessions and each one was totally different and unique.  Sometimes we just had 2 people and other times a crowded room of 7 or 8.  Our space was small and so we began by moving the tables to the side and started with movement activities.  Worksheets with quotes related to the session’s themes were shared and a writing or discussion prompt followed.  Each session ended with the women meditating and then tracing by pencil  a paper labyrinth.  Here’s a link to where you can download and print out several to trace with a pencil.  https://www.relax4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/papersimplechartres-.pdf

The Santa Fe County Detention Center has a yard where the women can spend some time outside each day.  Aine and I thought it would be quite wonderful if we could paint a labyrinth on the floor so the women might have an actual experience of walking it.  Again there were lots of hoops to jump through but finally we were able to do that.  Several women who had been regular participants were able to join us and it was an excellent event with Aine guiding us inmeasuring and then painting the lines.

Aine measuring the distance between lines for the labyrinth.

When Aine and I began working with women in a domestic violence center we again used ideas from the curriculum we had developed for the jail program.  And then when I made a film called Through the Door: Movement, Meditation and Healing, we filmed a session of the women from the Esperanza Shelter walking the labyrinth at Upaya Zen Center. Aine had spearheaded the project to get that labyrinth built.

Screen shot from Through the Door: Movement, Meditation and Healing

In the next blog I’ll share what I found out when I Googled “labyrinth in Costa Rica.”

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Reflections on the 5-Day Residency at York Correctional Institution

Sometimes we get surprised and we realize that an experience has profoundly changed us when we least expected it. That is what happened to me following the residency at York. It wasn’t just one thing but a series of changes that I felt inside myself.  A shift.

First of all, things were no longer black and white/good or bad — rather, many shades of gray. Someone could have done something bad at one time in their life and yet have many good qualities.  And how many of us have done things and gotten away with them while someone else didn’t? That was my first take away – an opportunity to see people differently and to know that we all have a tremendous range of capabilities within us.

Second, I had truly loved the teaching experience.  The women were very open to learning and enthusiastic in their participation. They were willing to try new things in a much more open way then I had experienced when leading workshops at synagogues, community centers and schools.  And they were so appreciative. They listened and responded in a very attentive way especially by the third day.  It was clear we had connected with them.  They were creative.

Third… there seemed to be some characteristics that artists and inmates have in common.  Both like to think outside the box, so the level of creative responses is excellent.  Both like to get high.  The majority of the women had gotten high either via alcohol or with drugs. Now they were discovering the high that they could get from performing and were very enthusiastic about it. Artists and inmates are risk takers.  I think sharing these kinds of traits enables a deeper connection to be made than happens in teaching in a typical urban or suburban adult class.

For the first time in a long time I felt like I was teaching with the flow rather than against the current.  So often in teaching situations over a number of the previous years I had felt like it was a struggle to get the point across.  Here was a situation where the participants were like sponges, eager to learn and to take in every word.  Indeed a very satisfying teaching experience.

I wondered if this had been just a unique week or if it would be true if we returned to York again or went to another women’s facility.  The next season we found ourselves both back at York and in residence for a week-long program at Dolores J. Baylor Women’s Correctional Institution in New Castle, Delaware.  Again the connection to the women was strong and our teaching resonated with them.  I found myself wanting to do more of these type of residencies and less of the type of bookings we had done before.  

The work in women’s prisons continued to grow with less and less other bookings. In the winter of 2004 Murray and I decided that we would retire from the New York area and I would find a new leader for Avodah.  I did and remained on the Board for a few years.  I was haunted by the women’s stories that I had heard and the intensity of the teaching experience.  Five years after I had retired, the stories still resonated, particularly those of several women we met who had murdered their abusers out of fear for their lives or having been pushed to the point where they snapped. This would lead me to form a non-profit film company with the mission of creating and distributing media of women striving to overcome abuse, and I’ll share more of this in a later blog.  I would also return to teaching movement in a women’s jail in Santa Fe as well as working in movement with women at Esperanza Shelter for Battered Families. I also helped to facilitate an art project at York, done by a friend.  There will be later blogs about these various experiences. That first week at York planted the seeds for creative work I have continued, to today.  Thank you, Joe Lea, for the invitation to bring the Forgiveness Project to York.

JoAnne, looking ahead. 
Photo taken by Murray around May 2004
at Liberty State Park near our home in Jersey City.

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Beyond All Expectations: York – Part II

The performing space was anything but ideal, basically the intersection of two hallways.  The longer one provided an area for the audience while the shorter two hallways to the right and left served as places to enter and exit.   The women gathered before, all showing up and expressing a typical nervousness that individuals new to performing often have.  The fact that all 24 women had shown up and were participating in the culminating event was itself very positive as we had been told that not completing things and dropping out was often a pattern of women in prison.

The lovely program that was made at York indicates that the performance began with an introduction by me, followed by a reading by Wally Lamb.  Wally had been leading writing workshops at York for a number years before our residency.  He edited and helped to get published two volumes of the women’s writing. The second book he wrote, I Know This Much is True, has an excellent passage on forgiveness that we were using in our workshops and so he read that section before the piece began.

Both performances went extremely well and I am pleased to share some of the following feedback:

From Alice Fitzpatrick, Executive Director of the Community Foundation of Southeastern CT:

[A]s the music began, a transformation occurred and the hours of practice, discipline and determination paid off. They were a precision team, they were proud of themselves and they were beautiful to watch.  The audience exploded with appreciation and encouragement… It was a triumph.”

From Steven Slosberg in The Day, a paper serving the New London, CT area, June 2, 2002: 

Forgiveness danced its way through the York Correctional Institution in Niantic a few weeks ago, spellbinding those who beheld it and moving those who delivered it to seek a return.

Joe Lea, who had arranged the residency, wrote about an article in Liberation  in December of 2003 about various “Art Programs in Prison.” Here is how the Avodah residency was described: 

One of our most profound experiences resulting from the incorporation of the arts into the school curriculum was with an artistic residency program offered in 2002 by Avodah Dance Ensemble, a New York City dance company. Avodah’s residency was the first of its kind for York CI and only one of a few in the history of the Connecticut Department of Correction.


The incarcerated population was focused, dedicated and willing to explore the workshops and programs offered by Avodah, our staff and volunteers.  One member of the custody staff noted that the week was free of disciplinary incidents at the school. Additionally, the impact of the program was full of life-long lessons in cooperation, commitment, collaboration and accomplishment.  (A 65-year-old inmate suffering from lung cancer who participated in the dance program pulled me aside and said “Mr. Lea, I will remember this for the rest of my life, Thank you.”)

A Supervising Psychologist at York sent a Memorandum to Joe Lea in which he shared:

It was a moving experience and a marvelous realization of the theme of the project – forgiveness.  The reviews I got from the women who participated and from those I spoke to who had been part of the audience were uniformly glowing. If I may offer a personal observation, it seemed to me as I watched the performance that both audience and performers were transported; it seemed for the time that we were all free and not in a prison.

A handwritten, two-page letter written by an inmate who participated in the program gave us more insight into the impact our residency had: 

Being able to work with and later perform with Avodah was truly an honor.  It was a privilege and an opportunity that I never dreamed would be available to me, prior to my incarceration, let alone imprisoned in a facility where encouragement of reconciliation, forgiveness and respect for others is not fostered. 


You and the ensemble accepted each one of us as we were, never questioning our past, approaching us selflessly, gently guiding us to a deeper place inside of us.  It was as if, each one of us were being held and uplifted to whatever place we needed to be at, at that particularly moment in time. I sometimes felt as though we were all blocks of clay, hard and packaged with labeling put on us by members of society that have never taken the time to get to know us. Avodah took each block of clay and nurtured it with warmth, enthusiasm, love and equality. 


I know that I found it extremely liberating to be able to “express” myself in an artistic medium that spoke for itself. I wasn’t questioned about the movements I chose to do, none of the women were. We were free to forgive whatever, whomever we wanted to, without any scrutiny from anyone.

The impact the residency had on me was also beyond all expectations.  I think it touched all four of the dancers and Newman as well.  I wondered if the week had been a unique experience.  Would we find a similar reaction if we returned or if we did a residency at another women’s correctional facility?   Over the next two years I discovered that we had similar kinds of very positive experiences in two return visits to York and residencies at the Delores J. Baylor Women’s Correctional Institution in New Castle, Delaware. In the next blog I will describe more deeply the impact of the week at York.  

Cover of a thank you note we received from York. Photo was taken by
one of the women at York who was learning how to do graphics.

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Residency at York Correctional Institution for Women – Part I

Just a few weeks after our residency at the Jewish congregation in Westchester we were off to Niantic, Connecticut for our final residency in a women’s prison.  I was still wrestling with an uncertainty of my own beliefs as well as what I saw as the future direction of the dance company, when we arrived on Sunday evening and gathered at a local church to meet our host families for the five nights we would be in Niantic.

Monday morning, 8:30 a.m. the dancers, Newman and I gathered in the waiting room of the prison. I am pretty sure that Joe Lea, who was handling all the details of the residency and had invited us, met us and guided us through the process of entering the facility.  Following a brief orientation we were guided to the school which was in the maximum security side and entered the large classroom that had been cleared of most furniture except chairs  along one side.  While not an ideal space it was certainly large enough and even had its own private bathroom.  

Twenty-four women and one of the staff teachers soon joined us.  To be part of our program the women had to be enrolled in school, have permission from a teacher and have successfully taken two dance classes led by a teacher on staff who had a dance background.   Joyce, the teacher who had led the classes, explained that the criterion for the women’s participation in our residency was that they could follow directions and make it through an elementary jazz-like dance class.  Women of all sizes and ages, with or without any dance background, were welcomed.

Once everyone was in the room I asked them to make a large circle, and the four company members and I spread out joining the circle.  Newman was busy setting up his instruments at the far end of the room. Usually I begin with a warm up led by one of the company members and that was what I had planned to do… but looking around the room I turned to Joyce and asked her to start the class and we would follow along.  She did and we followed her warm up for about 10 minutes.  Then she said they had created a dance and asked if I wanted to see it.  Indeed I did. The company members joined me as we watched a short jazz-style dance of about a minute.  Then I asked Joyce and the women to teach it to the four Avodah company members.  They did and everyone was enjoying having the company members dancing with them.  I asked if I might coach it a bit and was greeted with enthusiasm.  They quickly responded to the few suggestions I gave.  

Then I asked the women to sit on one side of the room and said that I would share a little about the style of dance we did.  Accompanied by Newman we shared some of the elements of modern dance focusing on different qualities of movement, floor patterns, and changing dynamics.  I then asked the group to give us a theme to dance about.  One woman raised her hand and I called on her.  She said the feelings of a sad baby crying.  Kerri, Andrea, Jessica and Danielle responded beautifully, creating a heartfelt movement improvisation.  You could have heard a pin drop in the room and the women were so clearly with the dancers.  I knew we were off to a very good start and that the women in the room and the four Avodah dancers would have no problem working together.  They had become a company of 28 women who would work on The Forgiveness Piece together to perform for other women at the facility on Friday.  Joe was also inviting some outside guests to the join the audience and we had scheduled two performances, one in the morning and one in the early afternoon.

As the week continued each of the company dancers had a small group of women that they worked with developing dances on different stages of forgiveness.  We also taught them some ensemble sections and I remember coaching them on the ending movement of the piece where I suggested that as each person brought their arms down they lift their sternum at the same time thinking of their hearts opening.  When I asked them to do that section again I was stunned to see the change and that each person in the room had taken that instruction to heart. I remember looking over at Newman and we nodded at each other.  The women had gotten it and the result was very powerful. 

We did not know any of the reasons the women were incarcerated.  That is something one doesn’t ask.  We were taken by how attentive they were and incredibly responsive to suggestions.  It was a very diverse group of all ages and sizes.  There was even a mother and daughter who were working together and really expressing how much they were glad to have this time together. Sometimes we would watch teachers observing through a small glass window at the door, and occasionally they would have tears in their eyes.

It was a pretty exhausting week as in addition to the daily work for two-and-a-half hours in the morning we were doing other afternoon workshops and a regular Avodah Dance Ensemble concert one evening in the minimum security side for women who wouldn’t be able to attend the Friday performances.

I seem to remember meeting with the women who would be performing with the company on Thursday afternoon as well as the morning so they would have a chance to run through The Forgiveness Piece from beginning to end.  I also staged curtain calls at that time.  Very rarely do I do individual curtain calls but this time I did and the women had great fun figuring out their unique way to enter, take a bow, and exit.

In next week’s blog I’ll share some memories of the actual performance.  Before I close this blog, I want to mention that earlier that year York formed a Forgiveness Project Committee made up mainly of teachers in the school and put together a full program of guest speakers related to the week’s theme.  It included a child of a Holocaust Survivor, a discussion about the “plight of the Native Americans as it relates to trust and forgiveness” and meditation related to Tibetan nuns and how the Tibetan people pray for their captors and continue “good works” in the hope that life will get better.

The School Committee also offered afternoon workshops that women could sign up for.  On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday we led workshops.  There were also other workshops with topics such as “Building Bridges,” “Is Forgiveness Possible?” and “Oral Storytelling.”

The Committee designed an excellent 8-sided brochure describing Avodah’s role and the goals for participants.  In addition, the brochure gave the 400 women who were enrolled in the school program a chance to sign up for the guest speakers and the workshops.  I am so glad that I saved the brochure, and below is the cover. 

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Invitation to Take The Forgiveness Project to a Women’s Prison

I don’t remember how we got the booking at Hartford Seminary or the exact date that we were there. I hunch it was in April of 2001. Hartford Seminary was doing an all-day program on forgiveness and asked us to do a lecture-demonstration as part of the day.  The Seminary is a non-denominational graduate school for religious and theological studies. We were honored to be a part of the program which also included someone from South Africa who had firsthand experience  with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which Desmond Tutu had written about in his book No Future Without Forgiveness. The four company members – Stacy, Becca, Julia and Candice – joined me and we put together a lecture-demonstration which might have also had some audience participation.  I remember being in a large room with about 50 to 75 people sitting around the edge on all four sides of the room.  

The Seminary did excellent publicity all around town with flyers listing the participants, including The Avodah Dance Ensemble.  As a result of the publicity, the week after we were in Hartford I got an email from Joe Lea, then a teacher at York Correctional Institution, the only women’s facility in the state of Connecticut.  He asked if I would be interested in bringing the program we did at the Seminary to York.  Well I was a bit taken aback and surprised by the email, and I had never thought of taking the dance company to a prison. Then I began to think, “Why not?!”

So I emailed Joe back and said that I would consider it but that I had never been in a jail or a prison and wondered if it was the right environment to bring the company into and how it would work.  Where would we perform?  I had lots of questions.  Joe suggested I come up, tour the prison and discuss it in person.  I agreed.  Of course the next thing I had to do was to fill out forms and get clearance to go into the prison.  I did that and then we agreed on a date.  I took the train to New Haven and Joe picked me up and we drove 45 more minutes to the prison.  

The whole experience was very new to me.  Leaving my purse in the car, I took nothing in with me.  It was easy being with Joe since he guided me through all the steps and of course everyone knew him.  Signing in, going through the metal detectors and then being in a small room with no windows where one door locks first before the door on the other side opens is a very sobering experience.

As we walked through the prison hallway Joe explained that York housed both a minimum and a maximum security side and that the school was located in the maximum side.  Women in the minimum side were permitted to attend.  While the prison housed up to 1400 women there were only 400 slots in the school.  I seem to remember that women under 18 who hadn’t graduated from high school were required to work on a GED. Women over 18 who hadn’t graduated were also welcome to attend. And in fact Joe was going to teach a GED class that afternoon and I was welcome to join him and speak with the women.

Joe showed me around and introduced me to some of the other teachers.  He showed me where they usually did programs in the school section.  It was in a long hallway which, in the center, had hallways leading off to each side.  While this was  not ideal I could see how it would work.  

When it came time for Joe to meet his class, I joined him and did kind of a Q and A with the students, sharing information about the dance company and the kind of programs that we did.  I realized that this was no different than any other teaching situation and in fact found the students more attentive than many other groups that I had worked with. I told Joe that I would indeed be willing to bring the company to York.

Shortly after my visit to York I decided to apply for a grant from the Nathan Cummings Foundation and called Joe to discuss the idea.  I suggested that instead of the dance company just coming up for one day, I was thinking of writing the grant for 4 different 5-day residencies where the company worked with each site giving participants an opportunity to dance with the company and even perform with them.  What did he think of Avodah coming to York for five days, working with a group of the women for four of the days and on the fifth day the women joining the company in performance?  He loved the idea.

So I wrote a grant that involved bringing The Forgiveness Project to four different sites including the prison and mailed it off!

The entrance to York Correctional Institution 
(from the Connecticut Correctional  website)

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